Den stegrande kamelen skrev:
Den andra förekomsten av Elf-lord gör det tydligare att ordet inte borde översättas till något som kan misstolkas som en kunglighet av egen kraft.
Nu vet jag inte riktigt vad du menar med "en kunglighet av egen kraft", men den andra förekomsten läser jag som att Glorfindel verkligen var något mer än en godtycklig alvädling. Och eftersom det då av frasen ändå framgår att han är något slags furste (särskilt om man översätter till "furstehus"), så går det extra bra att översätta "Elf-lord" till något annat än "alvfurste" just där. Men jag skulle då hellre göra honom till alvherre än alvädling på det stället. Sedan bör man nog inte stirra sig blind på just de där två förekomsterna. Det finns ju fler.
Det är på förhand inget som säger att Tolkien menar detsamma med "Elf-lord" (och varianten "Elven-lord") hela tiden. Och även om han gör det behöver det bästa ändå inte vara att översätta likadant hela tiden. Men efter att ha gått igenom de sjutton förekomster jag sammantaget hittar i hoberboken och ringsagan verkar det ändå som Tolkien väsentligen avser en sak. Och alvfursten klarar sig bra, tycker jag. Det enda mindre problemet är hur man gör med just "an Elf-lord of a house of princes". Den mer slätstrukne alvherren har heller inga uppenbara problem någonstans. Alvädlingen har, förutom att vara löjlig i största allmänhet, problem på flera ställen. Äh, det är lika bra ni bedömer själva:
Hober-Tolkien skrev:
[1] He [Elrond] was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer.
[2] If the elf-king had a weakness it was for treasure, especially for silver and white gems; and though his hoard was rich, he was ever eager for more, since he had not yet as great a treasure as other elf-lords of old.
[3] Now Bard was fighting to defend the Eastern spur, and yet giving slowly back; and the elf-lords were at bay about their king upon the southern arm, near to the watch-post on Ravenhill.
Ring-Tolkien skrev:
[4] The Three, fairest of all, the Elf-lords hid from him, and his hand never touched them or sullied them.
[5] But from her [Lúthien] the lineage of the Elf-lords of old descended among Men.
[6] 'Hail, and well met at last!' said the Elf-lord [Glorfindel] to Frodo.
[7] He [Glorfindel] is an Elf-lord of a house of princes.
[8] Caught between fire and water, and seeing an Elf-lord [Glorfindel] revealed in his wrath, they were dismayed, and their horses were stricken with madness.
[9] Very mighty Rings, it is said. Do not the Elf-lords keep them?
[10] Yet they too were made by the Dark Lord long ago. Are they idle? I see Elf-lords here [Elronds rådslag]. Will they not say?
[11] Even if you chose for us an elf-lord, such as Glorfindel, he could not storm the Dark Tower, nor open the road to the Fire by the power that is in him.
[12] And have you marked the brethren Elladan and Elrohir? Less sombre is their gear than the others', and they are fair and gallant as Elven-lords; and that is not to be wondered at in the sons of Elrond of Rivendell.
[13] His [Sams] voice sounded thin and quavering in the cold dark tower: the voice of a forlorn and weary hobbit that no listening orc could possibly mistake for the clear song of an Elven-lord.
[14] 'And I,' said Legolas, 'shall walk in the woods of this fair land, which is rest enough. In days to come, if my Elven-lord allows, some of our folk shall remove hither; and when we come it shall be blessed, for a while.'
[15] At the same time a force under Glorfindel the Elf-lord came up out of Rivendell.
[16] Then more than any kind of Men he [Aragorn] appeared, and seemed rather an Elf-lord from the Isles of the West.
[17] The Exiles, dwelling among the more numerous Grey-elves, had adopted the Sindarin for daily use; and hence it was the tongue of all those Elves and Elf-lords that appear in this history.
Furstestatusen tycker jag får direkt stöd av förekomsterna 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10 och 14. Och det finns ytterligare stöd i alvbibeln och stora midgårdskrönikan, men de förekomsterna är naturligtvis svårare att värdera.